Monday, June 2, 2014

True North May 1 to 31: The Sea of Cortez

May was dedicated to the Sea of Cortez, north of Isla Islotes which had been our furthest point north as of April. It fulfilled expectations! Beautiful anchorages are bountiful and the crystal clear, turquoise water had warmed up sufficiently to leave wetsuits behind. More cruisers were coming out to the Sea for summer. It is easy to look back and see how the month passed so quickly with many fantastic options for swimming, snorkeling and hiking to rocky points and ridgelines, complemented by evenings here and there with other boaters. It became very hot mid-day – too hot for hiking but for swimming or sailing it was perfect. Sailing between islands became a delightful combination of motoring and easy, leisurely sailing.
Blue sky, red rocks, white sand, turquoise water - the Sea of Cortez

May 1-6: La Paz to Loreto Fest

We Left La Paz May 1st. 
Leaving La Paz, Steve Jobs 220' yacht in the background
We wanted to get to Loreto Fest, May 2-4, and try to meet up with some of the other boats that would be there but it's a long haul from La Paz, ~110 nm . We overnighted at Ensenada Grande on Espiritu Santo, a favorite anchorage for its dazzling water and high red rock cliffs. Two gray whales surfaced in unison off our port side along the way.  The next morning, we crossed over to the channel on the west side of Isla San Francisco. We had been making good time motoring since having had the boat bottom cleaned by Luis at Costabaja. More good news from Luis: we wouldn't need to haul out and paint for another year. A wind picked up, N 20-30 kts directly ahead so we were going a slow 3.5 kts and wouldn't be able to make our intended anchorage before dark. We tucked just inside Punta San Evaristo on the north side of the anchorage for the night.

The anchor was up again early at 0555. It was still dark. The constellation Scorpio was looming large over over San Evaristo. As we made our way into the channel in the dim light of dawn, a pod of dolphins swam past.
Dolphins in Canal de San Jose
The sun rise over Isla San Jose and lit up the rocky landscape on the west side of the channel. So awesome! The landscape had changed in the last day from reddish cliffs with gullies extending to the shoreline to the high brown and grey Sierra de la Gigante range rising from the water's edge. We passed many more pods with a hundred dolphins swimming among scores of jumping fish so we put the fishing line into the water. Eventually, we heard the tell-tale sound of the reel indicating we had hooked a fish – a lively, colorful dorado was jumping at the end of our line! But...we had been using a smaller hook and it got away.

We had gone a long way without seeing any boats, then suddenly saw three and were pleased to pick up on AIS Antipodes, Appa and Sea Otter. We had been hoping to catch up with them at Loreto Fest but they had decided to make their way south a little earlier. Two of the boats would need to get ready for crossing to Hawaii soon. We considered joining them for one last night in Agua Verde but by now it was a few hours behind us and Puerto Escondido before dark was also calling. Loreto Fest is actually held 14 nm south of Loreto in Puerto Escondido where there's a large, protected anchorage. We finally arrived, anchor down at 17:30, inflated the dinghy, and were quickly greeted by Winterhawk dingying by on their way to the Loreto Fest spaghetti dinner. They came aboard for a brief visit and then we went to dinner together. There was a fantastic rock band on the patio. We danced a few and stayed to the very end. It was Winterhawk's last evening before going to San Carlos in the morning to prepare their boat for storage and it was a festive send-off. We had noticed Finisterra in the anchorage but didn't have a chance to contact them before Winterhawk arrived and in the morning they were gone.
Loreto Fest site at Hidden Port Yacht Club
We decided to stay for the day in Puerto Escondido. A 15-minute walk to the tienda gave us a chance to pick up a few provisions. It's a strange place. There is a town infrastructure consisting of good, paved sidewalks, street lights, spaces for a planned subdivision, small marina, large anchorage and modern marina offices but nothing else. Years have passed but the town has yet to be built! The setting is spectacular. The towering Los Gigantes frame the anchorage and in the morning light are reminiscent of the Grand Canyon with colorful horizontal rock layers. 

True North at Puerto Escondido, Los Gigantes in background
We pulled anchor at 08:05 from Puerto Escondido on a beautiful morning. The two hour motoring to Loreto was filled with the same superb scenery. Add to it hundreds of dolphins feeding in the channel. They were jumping every which way along with the big fish they were trying to catch. We were lucky to be in Loreto on a perfectly calm day and night. The anchorage at the town is not protected so a stay of a few hours before the afternoon winds pick up is the norm. With such calm conditions, we stayed overnight. Early in the day we walked to the town center to see the first and oldest mission in Mexico, San Loreto Mission, and a tree-lined avenue with tourist shops and sights. We walked further along a main road out of the tourist center, then back to Cafe Ole. Across the street a tour office caught our attention.
Hotel in Loreto
We signed up for ride and guide the next morning to go to San Javier Mission, about 30 kms away. It is the second oldest mission in Mexico and is tucked away in the scenic mountains.
San Xavier Mission
We met our guide, Oscar, at 08:30 on the malecon in his van and rode to San Javier Mission, 30 kms through winding hills with a few short detours for washed out roads which were being repaired. We walked the arroyo over to a very old fig tree. Roots 15' deep into the rock were exposed when the surrounding rock layer was washed away in last winter's rains. San Javier is a very small community with a wide stone paved main street leading to the old mission church. It's a very picturesque place in the mountains and off the beaten track. We may have been the only visitors. There was one small craft shop, a few empty palapas and tidy houses extending out from the main road. On the way back, Oscar dropped us off at a panateria and then the supermarket.

Old Town Loreto
We stopped for fish tacos at Mita Gourmet and to our surprise noticed that just next door was a craft beer cafe, 1697. So rare! It would have been a tasty treat as Mexican cerveza is about as tasteless as Bud Light. We had heard from Mike and Tammy on Resolution the day before. They had found us via our InReach track and were in the same area so we made plans to meet them that evening at Isla Coronados.

May 7-15: Buddy boating with Resolution

We met up with Resolution at Isla Coronados in the late afternoon at the south anchorage. We went aboard their boat to catch up on the past several weeks' activities and for dinner. Tammy had dorado to clear out of their freezer and Mike grilled it perfectly. We brought pasta with pesto – lotsa' pasta still to be used from our galley. The next morning, we moved our boats to the nearby west anchorage to access the hiking trail to the peak, a dusty 3-hour round trip through a partially groomed trail, rocks and gravel. 

True North and Resolution on top Isla Coranados
As we made our way back to the anchorage the wind had picked up considerably. Our boats were pitching at the edge of the surf line so we each prepared for departure and took off rapidly for the calmer anchorage back on the south side. Mike made a superb mole chicken which we complimented with penne pasta, appetizer and margaritas.
Anne and Tammy reproduce Shawn and Heather's beach photo
Together, we left in the morning for San Juanico and sailed much of the 25 nm north then tucked into the north end. It's a large, popular anchorage. We found a dozen other boats there already. We had just missed the annual Shipwrecked beach party the night before! Note: it is held every year on the first Wednesday of May. The night before the party, another informal party had been held at one of only two grand houses overlooking the beach. The fabulous guitarist from Loreto Fest played for six hours! Tom, the host, had invited all of the cruisers from the anchorage to his home for a pot luck dinner. We missed a real special event!
Cruiser's "shrine", San Juanico
We hiked a road a few miles up to the saddle and snorkeled around the rocks in the anchorage for the day's activities, then later in the evening Resolution joined us aboard True North for a dinner of pasta putanesca and spicy Italian sausage. While out in the dinghy the next day we stopped to meet the boat Que Linda from Bend, OR and visited with Doug and Linda. Coincidentally, they live on the same street as Sea Otter's Mike, Julie and Ben with whom we've spent some good times over the past few months. Gregg bartered for dorado with a sport fish boat that had just come into the anchorage with a couple of Pacificas and Emperado cookies. Muy bien, una dorado para la cena!

Anchorage at San Juanico
I caught a fish, as we moved north 4 nm to the anchorage at Punta Pulpito!  We sailed most of the way with a good wind. Just as we were thinking that we didn't really need fish right now (we still had some dorado leftovers), we heard the reel spinning. After patiently waiting for this fish to tire so that we wouldn't lose it, we brought it in...but, another skipjack. It wiggled desperately in an attempt to return to the sea and after a funny photo op, we gladly let it go.
Anne with her good-looking Skipjack

Punta Pulpito is quite picturesque. It has a large rocky head with a big vertical obsidium streak running through it and two large arches at the waterline. We took the dinghies over to explore but had forgotten to bring the camera. Later, we hiked the ridge to the top of Pulpito on a well-defined trail with awesome views of the anchorage below. In the evening on Resolution, combined leftovers from the galleys of Resolution and True North produced a full plate of dorado fish tacos with an array of colorful toppings.
Toppings, anyone?
We had our first experience with the Sea of Cortez bees in Pulpito where in some areas of the sea, bees swarm to fresh water so that any found on your boat will attract them. On opening the door to the head, I found a dozen of them clinging to the water faucet and in the sink. Others hovered near the galley sink. The good news is that they are easily chased away. We closed the side ports (the upper hatches have screens) and they stayed away. Punta Pulpito was our turnaround place and northernmost point in the Sea. We planned to move south the following day to Loreto to visit with Tammy and Mike's friend if the winds were calm enough for the unprotected anchorage at Loreto but they weren't.
True North at Punta Pulpito, our farthest point north in the Sea

A Norther with 27-30 kts was predicted for the north end of the Sea. On departing Punta Pulpito we noted 15 kts. Sailing south to Isla Carmen with big, non-threatening rollers and up to 28 kts of wind astern was exhilarating with jib only and an easy 6.5 kts SOG aside Resolution doing the same, making a very fun day.
Resolution overtaking True North south of Punta Pulipito
Bahia Ballandra, Isla Carmen – Change of plans! With that Norther, it wasn't going to be calm enough to anchor at Loreto and we still wanted to see some places along the way to Escondido so we stopped instead at Bahia Ballandra on Isla Carmen. There were a dozen boats already there, several in the north end where we first wanted to anchor. We chose a place in the center and Resolution pulled in nearby. 

Bahia Ballandra
The next day, Gregg and I dinghied over to the estuary which wasn't deep enough to go very far. I hung out in the dinghy while Gregg got out to explore a possible trailhead but found myself drifting quickly out of the estuary! I rowed as powerfully as possible and returned to the little sand beach where Gregg waited but was reminded of my inability to start this outboard. The cord is a rough pull and a little long for my arms. I keep trying with frustration to get it started. (We have since had it serviced!)
Dinghy'ing up the estuary at Ballandra
After, we looked for the trail to hike the ridgeline nearby. Gregg got to the top while I scrambled through rocks on the goat trail. Meanwhile, Tammy and Mike took their dinghy over to explore the snorkeling potential at the outer edge of the anchorage while the water was still calm. By mid-morning the breeze had picked up making rowing and snorkeling less desirable. In the evening, we had another fine dinner, delectable Chicken Korma prepared by Mike, a salad and crumbly brownies (no recipe) prepared by me.

The Resolution Restaurant
We moved on and returned to Puerto Escondido, 16 nm SW, and the same place we stayed at during Loreto Fest a couple of weeks earlier. It's a large anchorage and even with two dozen boats already there, we had plenty of room. As we entered we saw big, green Antipodes already there. We tried to set the anchor twice in a clearing, each time dragging and pulling up clumps of weeds mixed with mud. We moved to another area and set the anchor securely. Later, we learned the first area is called Skid Row! No boat stays there long. Shortly after anchoring, Antipodes dinghied up to say hello. After a brief time catching up, we invited them to join Resolution and us for dinner at the small Tripui Resort nearby where we were going to swim for the rest of the afternoon and catch up with WiFi.

The pool at Tripui Resort
The seven of us met later as planned. It's always fun to exchange news! In the morning, Antipodes left to go north, Resolution motored past to exit south. We hung out for the day, spending another night in Puerto Escondido.

May 16-25: On Our Own

Honeymoon Cove, Isla Danzante and Bahia Salinas, Isla Carmen

With just 10 days left in the Sea, we put together a list of some of the anchorages we wanted to see most. Honeymoon Cove was recommended as a “must see” and just 2 nm across to Isla Danzante so we went to check it out. It is one of the places known for bees. They came to the boat in droves searching for fresh water! Though it is a very picturesque cove with three lobes in which to anchor, a small white sand beach in one and with areas to hike, there is no shortage of white sand beaches and hiking trails elsewhere. We left!

We continued on around the north end of Isla Danzante and to the east side of Isla Carmen to Bahia Salinas at the NE end of the island. On the way in we passed a sunken fishing boat in 30' of water which is noted on the chart as a good snorkel and dive site. We dropped the anchor nearby, got out our gear and jumped in to find an abundance of reef fish. Soon, a pilot house sloop anchored nearby to do the same. Continuing on, we dropped our anchor in 15' in front of the semi-abandoned village at Salinas. The old white stucco church makes a picturesque scene set against the mountains. It was a calm night with just two other boats in the anchorage.

Church, Bahia Salinas
We have just eight days left at sea in Mexico. How many times in the past while working have we traveled far to spend a week or two or three somewhere, yet this is just the tail-end of a year aboard and this experience. The time and freedom have been luxurious.

We motored with little wind SW towards Bahia Candeleros. We wanted to check out the resort there but also were interested in staying at the smaller Caleta Candelero Chico around the point. With just one week left, we had to make choices. We did a “sail by” the resort but weren't enticed quite enough, despite missing their turtle-shaped pool! Instead we continued on the extra 2 nm to Caleta Candelero Chico. It is picture-perfect, just as described in our guidebook, and small.

Gregg at Caleta Candelero Chico
If more than one boat comes into the anchorage, both would need a stern tie but no other boats arrived. It's beautiful! Wide open space to the east with Isla Carmen rising as a mirage; blue-gray Los Gigantes montains to the west framed by low, yellow grassy land with cardon cactus; and a small opening to the south with just enough space for a dinghy passage. We anchored, got out the snorkeling gear and went to the south side where the sun still lit the water. Surprisingly, the rocky shoreline's clear water didn't reveal many fish. On the way back to the boat, I swam through a school of Mexican Houndfish (I think) which look a little like needle nose or trumpet fish. Beeeautiful evening! The light is so amazing; also the sounds. A pair of sea gulls called to each other. A sea ray skimmed the water, also a dolphin! Perfect temperature, 85°, low humidity, all was calm.
Sunsets on Isla Carmen, from Caleta Candelero Chico
This anchorage is memorable as one of the most enjoyable to date. It was late when we got around to dinner. We opted for simple: canned pozole rojos with dried carne adobada. If we had known earlier how good it would be we could have brought it to dinner with Resolution and faked it as home's that savory. In the morning, we took the dinghy to shore and explored a trail leading from the beach. Gregg climbed up a little higher for a view of the cove.

Caleta Candelero Chico
Two oyster catchers nesting together on the beach stayed awhile, then walked the shoreline poking at the water for something to eat.

We sailed for several hours south to Agua Verde with 20-25 kts close hauled and gusts of 30 kts near Roca Solitaria.

Roca Solitaria
Once inside the anchorage the wind calmed a bit but not completely. As we anchored, we remembered the fishing line was still deployed. Bringing it aboard, we found a long, narrow, silvery and yellow fish with a 4” file at the end and sharp little teeth! Mexican Houndfish? It looked too skinny to be anything but bones so we gave it back to the sea.

Mexican Houndfish???
Once anchored, we took the dinghy to shore to explore. Agua Verde is an authentic fishing village; nothing touristy here. Pangas began returning to shore. We walked through the village on a main, dusty road towards the center, the little blue church. Oh, it was hot! A few children came along looking for candy and gum. We asked directions to the tienda and they directed us to Maria's, a tidy tienda. A few streets away, a couple of musicians were practicing lively oom-pah-pah music, audible throughout the whole village. They were gearing up for a Sunday night social. Throughout the evening, pangas criss-crossed the anchorage returning for the day, while music and singing resounded in the distance.

Downtown Agua Verde
A dinghy ride around the bay brought us alongside a large, aluminum trawler type boat from Edmonton, Alberta. We stopped to say hello and Idelwild invited us aboard for a cold cerveza and a visit. The evening was very calm. The next morning while the water was unbelievably clear we took the dinghy and snorkel gear over to the Pyramid rock. Initially, there wasn't much to see but then we moved over a little to the other side of the small passage and there was an abundance of different reef fish and some new ones: stone fish, cortez angelfish and a first sighting of the chocolate chip starfish I had been hoping to find! It looks like a large, puffy cookie. This snorkeling site ended up being one of the best yet, also with file fish, rainbow wrasse, parrotfish, spotted porcupinefish, tile fish, damselfish, golden groupers, rays and a few distinctly different fish we couldn't identify.

Around noon, we moved south to Bahia San Marte, just a few miles from Agua Verde. However, after lunch the southeasterlies picked up to 29 kts in the anchorage. The only other boat there left! The wind wasn't so bad but the wave action was becoming uncomfortable. With nothing but time, we thought it best to move back north to the more protected Agua Verde East, which materialized into a peaceful resting place for the night. We were the only boat in the anchorage under a brilliant night sky. To the mellow tunes of Mark Knopfler and EmmyLou Harris we passed the evening identifying constellations out on the deck.

A thick fog covered the Agua Verde area in the morning.

Fog at Agua Verde!
Even on the dry side of the sea summer heat brings on morning humidity. It burned off by late morning when we left the anchorage for the next stop 15 nm south, Los Gatos. With a light wind of 8-11 kts, we made our way there slowly but steadily. The scenery all along the way was stunning! Striated cliffs of red, white and grey lined the coast with small patches of white sand beaches. Grand, rounded red sandstone ledges and cliffs came into view as we entered Los Gatos anchorage. We anchored in the center of the bay with no other boats around. A panga speeded over to offer conch for sale. We bought two for 50 pesos, ~ $4 USD from the fisherman, Manuel but had no idea how to prepare them. Our Spanish could only make out “sopa” and “agua caliente” so we planned on soup of some kind.

Anne buying conch from Manuel
Another sailboat, from Vancouver, B.C., arrived and was also approached by Manuel. Soon after we stopped by Tenacity to meet John and Kim. They told us to boil the conch for 20 minutes and then pull them out of the shell with a pliers. First, we made a shore trip to explore the smooth red rocks and climb to the top for the all expansive views. Fabulous!

Red rocks, Los Gatos
Back at the boat, Gregg took over as seafood chef. Later when preparing it, Gregg got ours out easily but we could hear Tenacity pounding their shells with a hammer. As for was just like rubberbands to me but Gregg liked the flavor.
Extracting conch from the shell
There are many lovely anchorages south of Los Gatos with similar red sandstone cliffs in which to hike and climb. We told Manuel we would be in Timbabiche the next night and he hinted that he would find some langostas (lobsters) for us and bring them there. However, in the morning we couldn't resist staying one more day in this peaceful place. More boats came into the anchorage later including Trinity Rose, a DeFever power boat we had met on the Pacific side a few months earlier. Fortunately for us, Manuel came speeding across the anchorage in the afternoon to return with four langosta. They were easy to prepare and so, so good to eat.
Langostas from Manuel
At sunset, we took a spin around the anchorage by dinghy and met Quetzel from Port Townsend with Amy and John aboard. We visited with them until after dark, just talking and comparing future plans.

The sail from Los Gatos to San Evaristo gave us an opportunity to use just about every point of sail. The wind flip-flopped from every direction along the way but we were in no great hurry to get to the next anchorage, opting instead for sailing in a mixture of brisk to mild winds. We got to San Evaristo in late afternoon, put the dinghy in and went to shore to explore the small fishing village. There are a few houses near the water but most are about a block away along a wide dirt road.  The "Super Mercado" was closed, so we walked over to a little restaurant to buy cervesa and limones.  
"Super Mercado" in San Evaristo was cerrado
The shoreline was busy with fishermen cleaning their catch, hundreds of birds waiting nearby. Consequently, the shoreline wasn't very clean and so opted not to swim. In the morning, we got up to see a large pod with dozens of dolphins swam through the anchorage.

Last stop, Isla San Francisco – We couldn't have been more fortunate than to spend our last two nights in the Sea of Cortez in the beautiful Isla San Francisco south anchorage. It has a large, crescent-shaped beach with fine, white sand and high, reddish rocky cliffs with defined hiking trails.

Bahia San Francisco
The crystal-clear and turquoise water is impossible to resist! We went swimming immediately after setting the anchor. This would prove to be another incredible anchorage for beauty, serenity and things to do. We took the dinghy around to explore the rocky points first and on the way back, passed by a sparkling, airy catamaran to get a closer look. Peter waved us over to Taj and to invite us to join them later for happy hour. With pleasure! We spent a most interesting evening visiting with Peter & Janet from Seattle and found no shortage of boat talk and other common ground. The next morning we hiked the ridge for grand panoramic views of the anchorage and surrounding sea. A few more boats had arrived. Janet and I snorkeled by the rocks at the point to find an interesting pulsating sea urchin covered with small rocks. We picked it up and removed a few rocks to get a closer look! After putting it back in place, the rocks quickly returned to the urchin. Were they protection? The rest of the afternoon and evening went by too quickly.
Crew of Taj on True North
We savored what would be our last night at an anchorage in the Sea of Cortez. In the morning, we motored and sailed the 40 miles back to La Paz to close the boat for summer.

Great year! Looking back, the Ha-Ha provided a fun introduction to cruising in Mexico, eliminating a lot of the paperwork hassles and by providing a loose security net and network for meeting others. Add to that beautiful Mexican cruising grounds and wonderfully friendly locals and cruisers. While we made a reasonable initial attempt to learn Spanish, we didn't get beyond “getting by”, yet Mexicans were visibly pleased with any attempt we made to speak Spanish. True North exceeded our expectations. While honing our sailing skills we found out "what she can do", no one went overboard, there were no groundings or anchor draggings and we didn't hit anything. There were no big storms and no wild wind we couldn't handle by reefing early enough. Even spinnaker handling went well. We experienced the best side of cruising the U.S. coastline and Mexico. We also experienced the striking contrast between the simplicity of living aboard a sailboat in pristine anchorages and the beautiful resort life made available to us in several marinas: Costabaja, Barra de Navidad, Las Hadas and El Cid. It certainly was grand to venture into both worlds.

May 25: Marina Costabaja in La Paz, prepping True North for the summer

Our final week brought us once again to Costabaja Marina to close up True North for the summer. With a daunting list of chores, we rapidly worked each morning while it was cool towards battening the hatches and sails against potential hurricanes, intensive heat and pest prevention. Other cruisers were doing the same, taking an “infinity pool” break around 15:00 to cool off in the mid-day heat with a cold beverage.
True North with her hurricane sail cover
Where are some of the other boats whose paths we crossed during the season? Roundabout did the Puddle Jump, arriving in the Marqueses at the end of April. Sand Dollar made a 22-day Pacific crossing to Hawaii, arriving yesterday, May 30th. Appa and Sea Otter left on May 29th for Hawaii and are presently making good time with fair winds. Unleashed remains in Marina Mazatlan over the summer while getting a new paint job and her crew RVs around the U.S.  Resolution's crew left her in Costabaja a couple of days ago with their sabbatical over and plans to return to the Sea in November. Antipodes is cruising the Sea of Cortez through June; then will bash to San Francisco. They cut back their 3-year cruising plan through the Canal and East Coast to regroup. Winterhawk left in early May for San Carlos to leave their boat on the hard over the summer with plans to return next February. Angelina bashed back to So Cal. Sunshine left their boat in Marina Palmira, La Paz for the summer. Finistera delayed plans for Panama until next year and are bashing back to So Cal to do some boat work and will return in the Fall. French Curve should be in the Sea of Cortez about now and for the summer, then heading south along the coast. La Ballona II will likely leave their boat in Costabaja where we first met them last November. Ohana, our boat dock neighbors in Anacortes, stayed in Half Moon Bay over the winter and will head south along the coast of Mexico in the Fall, making their way to Panama and Central America. 
True North and crew
And True North?  She will stay at Costabaja over the summer. We plan to return with her to the Sea of Cortez for October and November.  Then, back to sunny winter days with fluffy snow for the ski season, December to February. After that, as we've learned from others:

Our plans will be written in sand at low tide.”


  1. OMG! The Sea of Cortez looks absolutely breathtaking! It looks like you've been to paradise, based on the beautiful pictures you took. My favorite among the pics would have to be the photo of the Old Town Loreto with those arching trees, which look very enchanting. I hope I can go sailing there one day as well. Thanks for sharing!

    Brent Vandenbroek @ Central MM

  2. Brent,

    Thanks for your compliments! Loreto is indeed an enchanting place, with beautiful old buildings, great restaurants, a wonderful waterfront, and of course all the warmth and friendliness of the local Mexicans. And the Sea of Cortez is spectacular.

    But you don't have to take a sailboat there, it's all accessible by car within a few days drive from San Diego. We'll be doing that trip this fall to return to True North, and look forward to exploring by land as well as sea.

    We hope you can enjoy The Sea and Loreto as well!